Apple OC
Apr 23, 12:27 AM
Sorry, I just don't buy it. Isolated examples dependent upon a very rare set of circumstances that the average user won't encounter. I *do* believe your experience, you're very well versed when it comes to tech and no doubt well-treavelled, but this is just too much of a stretch. Yes, it's possible. But it's also possible to gain the same information in much more common and easier ways, instead of the super-spy scenario. I'm not sure how your terrorist cell example applies to anything relevant (or dangerous) for the average, everyday person.
I'm pretty sure your average FBI agent's iPhone (assuming they carry around iPhones) that has been cleared for use (and very likely modified) by the FBI can be stripped right down forensically and will have revealed absolutely nothing.
The average user who is *not* a secret agent really has nothing to be in up in arms about, provided they haven't just knocked off a bank or killed someone.
for all your defending of this feature ... can you give me even one positive reason this is good for the average person that out-weighs the negative ones ... just one
I'm pretty sure your average FBI agent's iPhone (assuming they carry around iPhones) that has been cleared for use (and very likely modified) by the FBI can be stripped right down forensically and will have revealed absolutely nothing.
The average user who is *not* a secret agent really has nothing to be in up in arms about, provided they haven't just knocked off a bank or killed someone.
for all your defending of this feature ... can you give me even one positive reason this is good for the average person that out-weighs the negative ones ... just one
Multimedia
Aug 31, 11:05 AM
Er... The quad G5 isn't available new anymore, so it costs what it costs (there's nothing in the regular store to compare it to - the Mac Pro is NOT a one for one replacement)... IF this rumor is true, then the current lineup is just getting shuffled down with a new top end added, then they would have to drop refurb prices or it wouldn't make any sense.
Now if they just shuffle the CPU down (so the base mini still has a Combo drive and 60gb HDD, but gets a 1.66 Core Duo) they will STILL have to drop the refurb price... A new regular price Solo with SD and 80gb HDD is currently $699, which is the current Core Duo refurb price.
If they completely revamp the lineup then they may keep the same pricing, but seems highly unlikey as noone would buy them and keeping uneeded inventory on hand is bad business.I agree with you. But for some reason who ever is in charge of that page does not. Mac Pro is certainly a replacement for the Quad G5 and much faster for less money. $2799 for a G5 Quad is not a fair market price.$1999 would be more reasonable.
That's why I am trying to get someone to do benchmarks between the Quad G5 and the 2GHz Mac Pro. My hunch is the 2GHz Mac Pro is faster than the 2.5GHz Quad G5. And a 2GHz Mac Pro is $2124 plus RAM.
Now if they just shuffle the CPU down (so the base mini still has a Combo drive and 60gb HDD, but gets a 1.66 Core Duo) they will STILL have to drop the refurb price... A new regular price Solo with SD and 80gb HDD is currently $699, which is the current Core Duo refurb price.
If they completely revamp the lineup then they may keep the same pricing, but seems highly unlikey as noone would buy them and keeping uneeded inventory on hand is bad business.I agree with you. But for some reason who ever is in charge of that page does not. Mac Pro is certainly a replacement for the Quad G5 and much faster for less money. $2799 for a G5 Quad is not a fair market price.$1999 would be more reasonable.
That's why I am trying to get someone to do benchmarks between the Quad G5 and the 2GHz Mac Pro. My hunch is the 2GHz Mac Pro is faster than the 2.5GHz Quad G5. And a 2GHz Mac Pro is $2124 plus RAM.
Dont Hurt Me
Mar 19, 03:23 PM
I don't argue that their strategy is wrong. They are a profitable, debt-free company. They obviously have some clue as to what's going on.
However, as a Mac lover on a budget, I hate only having the option of an iMac or an eMac. I dislike both of them. I dislike the design and I dislike that they are essentually unupgradable. If I am going to spend money on a product, I had better like looking at it. I also don't want to have to use a G4 MDD as it's old technology. Granted, it's life is far from over but I get the impression that Apple is telling me that unless I am willing to pony up $2500.00 - $3000.00, that my only options are either old or unupgradable products.
A Bargain PC may be a POS, but for a good group of people, it's all they can afford...and I am almost to that point. My old computer can only take me so much farther.this is exactley why marketshare has dwindled for Mac, they tell you its our way ( powermac) or if you dont submit then we will cripple the Hell out of the othermacs and leave you wanting, so the world says screw you Apple and buys a PC with everything they want in it and makes do with a OS that is less then perfect. This is why Apples new computer sales went to 1.7% of all new sales. Apple is a dictator mini monopoly.
However, as a Mac lover on a budget, I hate only having the option of an iMac or an eMac. I dislike both of them. I dislike the design and I dislike that they are essentually unupgradable. If I am going to spend money on a product, I had better like looking at it. I also don't want to have to use a G4 MDD as it's old technology. Granted, it's life is far from over but I get the impression that Apple is telling me that unless I am willing to pony up $2500.00 - $3000.00, that my only options are either old or unupgradable products.
A Bargain PC may be a POS, but for a good group of people, it's all they can afford...and I am almost to that point. My old computer can only take me so much farther.this is exactley why marketshare has dwindled for Mac, they tell you its our way ( powermac) or if you dont submit then we will cripple the Hell out of the othermacs and leave you wanting, so the world says screw you Apple and buys a PC with everything they want in it and makes do with a OS that is less then perfect. This is why Apples new computer sales went to 1.7% of all new sales. Apple is a dictator mini monopoly.
Kranchammer
Mar 24, 01:20 PM
Even then though...I dont think this means anything special for non-MacPro owners. Everything else gets the mGPU treatment:(
Well, that's because all of Apple's other products are constrained by power and/or space requirements.
Well, that's because all of Apple's other products are constrained by power and/or space requirements.
Gasu E.
Nov 28, 08:26 AM
I find you the one that is incorrigible. The 23" inch price is competitive where it is as your link so eloquently points out. The Apple displays are easily worth a 15-20% mark-up. The problem is since the last time the display prices were updated 20" wide-screen panel prices have dropped nearly in half. So a year ago when Apple released this $699 price point it was a good price because competitors were selling the same panels at $599. Now they are at $399 and some times as low a $299. Apple's display is worth extra just not 75% to 100% extra.
I see a lot of scientific analysis went into your response. "Not!"
Go to many suppliers of equipment aimed at professionals, and you will often see professional-quality products priced at 3-5x that the price of consumer-quality products in the same functional category.
I am guessing from your "easily worth a 15-20% mark-up" remark that your experience is limited to high-quality consumer products. Don't confuse a consumer upgrade with a professional alternative. Danny, "you're out of your element."
I think a lot of people on this thread would like to see Apple offer some consumer-targeted alternatives to the current monitors, competitively priced. But that's not the same as buying pro equipment at a consumer price.
I see a lot of scientific analysis went into your response. "Not!"
Go to many suppliers of equipment aimed at professionals, and you will often see professional-quality products priced at 3-5x that the price of consumer-quality products in the same functional category.
I am guessing from your "easily worth a 15-20% mark-up" remark that your experience is limited to high-quality consumer products. Don't confuse a consumer upgrade with a professional alternative. Danny, "you're out of your element."
I think a lot of people on this thread would like to see Apple offer some consumer-targeted alternatives to the current monitors, competitively priced. But that's not the same as buying pro equipment at a consumer price.
Eraserhead
Apr 9, 01:45 AM
The solution to Mexico's problems is drugs legalisation.
gmcalpin
Jun 22, 06:02 PM
Ah yes. A porn free, tightly censored, code controlled desktop machine. That's what everyone wants right? :rolleyes:
Did you miss the part where it says OSX and iOS?
Did you miss the part where it says OSX and iOS?
Caris
Feb 20, 03:36 PM
Mila Kunis.
kadajawi
Sep 6, 10:13 AM
The 24" iMac can be upgraded to a 7600GT video card. Anyone know how decent that is? What about the x1600?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
NebulaClash
Sep 14, 10:10 AM
...my iPhone 4 still gets the best reception of any phone I've ever owned, regardless of how I hold it or whether or not it has a case on it...
Yes, of course that's the case for most people. But you'd never know that if you listened to the drumbeat of the media saying that this iPhone version too has reception issues (I say "too" because this is not the first model of iPhone where reception issues were blown out of proportion (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/18/iphone-3g-connectivity-affecting-2-of-customers-software-fix-soon/) to the percentage of users actually affected).
Yes, of course that's the case for most people. But you'd never know that if you listened to the drumbeat of the media saying that this iPhone version too has reception issues (I say "too" because this is not the first model of iPhone where reception issues were blown out of proportion (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/18/iphone-3g-connectivity-affecting-2-of-customers-software-fix-soon/) to the percentage of users actually affected).
shadowmoses
Aug 7, 02:55 AM
here's my assesment of the situation; a complete and reasonable roundup of what to expect at the show
http://www.sejus.com/earth2willi/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1184
Seems like a pretty good roundup of what will happen, I would like to see the iPhone with support for VOIP via wi-fi with iChat 4 that would be really sweet......
Can't wait WWDC is going to be great,
ShadoW
http://www.sejus.com/earth2willi/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1184
Seems like a pretty good roundup of what will happen, I would like to see the iPhone with support for VOIP via wi-fi with iChat 4 that would be really sweet......
Can't wait WWDC is going to be great,
ShadoW
mandis
Mar 25, 03:55 PM
At this pace the iPad3 will come close to the PS3 in terms of performance when it is released next year...
I'm really impressed by the increasing performance of the ARM architecture. Mind you all this is coming from a tiny SoC which doesn't require cooling or any substantial power intake.
Impressive indeed!
Maybe we'll be seeing ARM based Desktops by the end of the decade... or sooner?
I'm really impressed by the increasing performance of the ARM architecture. Mind you all this is coming from a tiny SoC which doesn't require cooling or any substantial power intake.
Impressive indeed!
Maybe we'll be seeing ARM based Desktops by the end of the decade... or sooner?
kalsta
Apr 3, 05:06 AM
A bit schmaltzy to be sure, but much, much better than the recent 'you don't have an iPhone' ads. This one is positive, and tries to get to the heart of Apple's design philosophy. Notice how the device itself is hardly even seen � just subtle hints of its outline. All the focus is on the display's content and the fingers interacting with it. It's the principle of 'less is more', or minimalist design � approaching the ideal of a user interface that provides the illusion of direct manipulation of virtual objects as much as possible, without getting in your way.
standingquiet
Jan 10, 03:49 PM
Well traded the Subaru today time to get something a bit more sensible so i got a 2007 Ford Focus ST-2.
Done all the paper work today and pick her up tomorrow afternoon, cant wait.
Matt
Done all the paper work today and pick her up tomorrow afternoon, cant wait.
Matt
IbisDoc
Mar 25, 05:50 PM
Most of the naysayers believe that tilting and touch-screen gaming is for sissies. They want actual analog controllers and such. They'll never change that attitude because they what they were raised on. The younger, current group of gamers will find that tilt & touch is very natural for them so they won't be as prone to griping that the past is slowly fading away.
I like racing games a lot and this one looks terrific. Apple needs to build a game console with two iPad2 chips in it or one quad-core ARM processor. That would make one fine low-cost system with more games than you could possibly want available. Apple would just have to work out some touch & tilt controllers for it.
Touchscreen gaming requires you to LOOK AT THE TOUCHSCREEN. This works if the game is ON THE TOUCHSCREEN (for example, the iPad). This doesn't work if the game is on a different screen (for example, the TV). In touchscreen gaming, the concept is that you are watching the action on the screen that you are touching, not on a different screen 6-8 feet away.
In what way is that a dinosaur concept?
This will have limited usefulness, mainly tilting games. Or maybe a dumb game where you just need to smack the screen to whack a mole or something.
I like racing games a lot and this one looks terrific. Apple needs to build a game console with two iPad2 chips in it or one quad-core ARM processor. That would make one fine low-cost system with more games than you could possibly want available. Apple would just have to work out some touch & tilt controllers for it.
Touchscreen gaming requires you to LOOK AT THE TOUCHSCREEN. This works if the game is ON THE TOUCHSCREEN (for example, the iPad). This doesn't work if the game is on a different screen (for example, the TV). In touchscreen gaming, the concept is that you are watching the action on the screen that you are touching, not on a different screen 6-8 feet away.
In what way is that a dinosaur concept?
This will have limited usefulness, mainly tilting games. Or maybe a dumb game where you just need to smack the screen to whack a mole or something.
Zadillo
Oct 23, 03:07 PM
I'll probably be waiting awhile, but I won't be purchasing a MBP until it has the Core 2 Quadro, built-in bootable flash memory for quicker booting times, and a hard drive that can be easily swapped out like the MB line currently has. It makes more sense to me to have a Professional line of notebooks with a hard drive that can be replaced easily than having consumer notebooks with this feature. After a user returns with my company's shared notebook, I could simply swap out the HD with a cleanly imaged HD to give to the next user. Why would the average home user or a non-tech college student with a MB need to swap out their drives through the battery compartment, but not a professional user? Steve - I'm not asking for a lot here.
Until I see these features or at least two of the three, I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade just yet.
Gene Huller
http://genehuller.com
Have they announced a mobile version of the Core 2 Quadro? I had thought that was only a desktop chip.
Until I see these features or at least two of the three, I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade just yet.
Gene Huller
http://genehuller.com
Have they announced a mobile version of the Core 2 Quadro? I had thought that was only a desktop chip.
roland.g
Sep 1, 12:48 PM
17" iMac - EDU only or $1099
20" iMac - 2.16 $1,499
23" iMac - 2.33 $1,799 or $1,899 no way they put a $1,999 or higher price tag on an iMac, not even if they call it iMac Pro
20" iMac - 2.16 $1,499
23" iMac - 2.33 $1,799 or $1,899 no way they put a $1,999 or higher price tag on an iMac, not even if they call it iMac Pro
Built
Apr 3, 02:34 AM
The way I write? This has anything to do with anything?
And again, the "evidence" you keep suggesting exists does not represent what is actually the case. Even within this thread, there are several people telling you they have no issues with their device. I don't have any issues either.
I hate to use the well known argument we often see on these forums, but you will almost always hear from the people who have issues with their products.
You will almost never see threads or comments from people that don't really have a reason to exclaim to the world that their device is perfect. Thus, we see an inflation of negative threads as compared to positive threads, and ignorant people take this to mean there is a wide-spread and critical flaw with all of the devices. Also, the negative comment is more distinctive, and thus more memorable than the positive one- again adding to the illusion you seem to be buying into.
It is, indeed, sad to see someone get so emotionally attached to a consumer product that they cannot admit to themselves that the product may have some flaws.
You obviously need to relax. There is more to life than iPad.
And again, the "evidence" you keep suggesting exists does not represent what is actually the case. Even within this thread, there are several people telling you they have no issues with their device. I don't have any issues either.
I hate to use the well known argument we often see on these forums, but you will almost always hear from the people who have issues with their products.
You will almost never see threads or comments from people that don't really have a reason to exclaim to the world that their device is perfect. Thus, we see an inflation of negative threads as compared to positive threads, and ignorant people take this to mean there is a wide-spread and critical flaw with all of the devices. Also, the negative comment is more distinctive, and thus more memorable than the positive one- again adding to the illusion you seem to be buying into.
It is, indeed, sad to see someone get so emotionally attached to a consumer product that they cannot admit to themselves that the product may have some flaws.
You obviously need to relax. There is more to life than iPad.
freebooter
Oct 23, 11:27 AM
New MacBook Pro's and video iPods for some, abortions and miniature American flags for others
Ha Hah Haah!! Classic! Truly the best bit of poetry I've read on any thread.
Ha Hah Haah!! Classic! Truly the best bit of poetry I've read on any thread.
absurdio
Oct 24, 05:46 AM
I'd love to see a new design, but I'll be happy with:
1. C2D 2.33GHz
2. bigger HD, with easy-swap HD bay
3. heat problems, "mooing," and random-shutdowns solved
Anything else will be icing on the cake!
:)
iBorg
Completely right. As everyone else has speculated, it seems likely that the big overhaul will be early next year. That said, if this revision has the upgrades you mentioned, I'll be elated. I'd much rather have a functional (i.e. not overheating, mooing, and whining) machine than a feature-crammed but functionally useless one. Stability, in this case, is probably more important than unworkable new features.
1. C2D 2.33GHz
2. bigger HD, with easy-swap HD bay
3. heat problems, "mooing," and random-shutdowns solved
Anything else will be icing on the cake!
:)
iBorg
Completely right. As everyone else has speculated, it seems likely that the big overhaul will be early next year. That said, if this revision has the upgrades you mentioned, I'll be elated. I'd much rather have a functional (i.e. not overheating, mooing, and whining) machine than a feature-crammed but functionally useless one. Stability, in this case, is probably more important than unworkable new features.
Piggie
Mar 25, 11:19 AM
Its unlikely they will fit in an imac case. They are about 30cm long and are all dual slot.
Well, to be fair, I was never expecting a PCI version of such a card to be fitted into an iMac.
Given Apple's money, I thought they would have gone to ATI, Worked with them, and allocated a space inside the frame of a high end iMac, with the aluminium to act as a cooling area, and ATI could have designed a custom layout for this area using the same GPU's as are in the PCI card version.
Well, to be fair, I was never expecting a PCI version of such a card to be fitted into an iMac.
Given Apple's money, I thought they would have gone to ATI, Worked with them, and allocated a space inside the frame of a high end iMac, with the aluminium to act as a cooling area, and ATI could have designed a custom layout for this area using the same GPU's as are in the PCI card version.
brianus
Sep 1, 01:22 PM
these prices seem a lot more like what I was thinking. Wishful? maybe, but this would be aggressive pricing, not keeping the current 17" and 20" where they are and throwing the 23" way over their marks.
Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. It's not so much that they're growing the iMac line and reaching towards the Mac Pro; rather, 23" is the new 20" and 20" is the new 17". Just the natural progression of things. And 17" definitely needs to be relegated to Education Only (I could see them being sold to some businesses too, perhaps), lest it either cannibalize the Mac mini at its too-reduced price, or seem like way too little for the money.
Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. It's not so much that they're growing the iMac line and reaching towards the Mac Pro; rather, 23" is the new 20" and 20" is the new 17". Just the natural progression of things. And 17" definitely needs to be relegated to Education Only (I could see them being sold to some businesses too, perhaps), lest it either cannibalize the Mac mini at its too-reduced price, or seem like way too little for the money.
leekohler
Mar 24, 01:01 PM
Oh FFS!!! :rolleyes:
How many times more are we going to have to argue this?
It is not a choice.
I no more chose to be gay than you chose to be straight.
Christ! Sometimes this forum reminds me of a Whack the Mole game� hit one on the head and another pops up.
Same stuff over and over�
And people wonder why I get frustrated and end up telling people off. That kind of BS gets old. I've been fighting that kind of ignorance for over 25 years now- others even longer. It gets very tiring, but we still can't stop fighting it.
How many times more are we going to have to argue this?
It is not a choice.
I no more chose to be gay than you chose to be straight.
Christ! Sometimes this forum reminds me of a Whack the Mole game� hit one on the head and another pops up.
Same stuff over and over�
And people wonder why I get frustrated and end up telling people off. That kind of BS gets old. I've been fighting that kind of ignorance for over 25 years now- others even longer. It gets very tiring, but we still can't stop fighting it.
bartzilla
May 3, 07:27 AM
I
I really wonder what the reasoning behind all this negativity is...
Well I can tell you why I'm dubious - we know that iOS has shown that full computer paradigms don't translate well to the tablet (e.g. iOS compared to the 'full Windows' tablet experience). I'm thinking that the description of this new feature sounds very clumsy, and it may illustrate that the reverse of my first statement is true: tablet interface conventions may not translate well to a 'normal' computer environment.
I really wonder what the reasoning behind all this negativity is...
Well I can tell you why I'm dubious - we know that iOS has shown that full computer paradigms don't translate well to the tablet (e.g. iOS compared to the 'full Windows' tablet experience). I'm thinking that the description of this new feature sounds very clumsy, and it may illustrate that the reverse of my first statement is true: tablet interface conventions may not translate well to a 'normal' computer environment.
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