Linito
Sep 6, 09:30 AM
Poop. And I was hoping for a $100 price drop.
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Lukeit
Mar 31, 02:43 AM
Regarding the launchpad... I can't remove applications anymore...
When I click "option" the icons get to "shake" but there is not X sign to click to delete the app... they just wiggle and can't be deleted.
Any of you the same?
Also very difficult to move them around...
In my experience launchpad was working better on preview 1!
Ideas?
When I click "option" the icons get to "shake" but there is not X sign to click to delete the app... they just wiggle and can't be deleted.
Any of you the same?
Also very difficult to move them around...
In my experience launchpad was working better on preview 1!
Ideas?
whooleytoo
Jul 18, 05:58 AM
I don't think the time is right for online digital movie rentals. Even with a relatively fast broadband service, it still is going to take a fair amount of time to download the file. If the file only plays once, or just for a day, or a few days it's just not worth the effort, IMO.
On the other hand, if it were a subscription service, or a download & keep it would be. Perhaps, in the not too distant future when we all have much faster connections, the download rental market might make more sense.
Surely the TV Shows issue is because the US shows are sold on to European TV Stations, usually after the show has aired in the states. These TV Stations aren't going to be too pleased if they've shelled out a bucketload of money for the UK premier of 24 for example, only to have it show up on iTunes before they've even aired it.
So <the inevitable reply> why don't the air the shows on the same day in every country? In the TV age, it wouldn't make sense. In the digital age, it's the only way that makes any sense.
On the other hand, if it were a subscription service, or a download & keep it would be. Perhaps, in the not too distant future when we all have much faster connections, the download rental market might make more sense.
Surely the TV Shows issue is because the US shows are sold on to European TV Stations, usually after the show has aired in the states. These TV Stations aren't going to be too pleased if they've shelled out a bucketload of money for the UK premier of 24 for example, only to have it show up on iTunes before they've even aired it.
So <the inevitable reply> why don't the air the shows on the same day in every country? In the TV age, it wouldn't make sense. In the digital age, it's the only way that makes any sense.
NebulaClash
Sep 15, 10:34 AM
CR wants them to include a free case in the box at the time of purchase. Isn't that a MORE "simple, free, and easy" solution than what Apple did and are now doing away with? Apple's solution is no longer "simple, free and easy" after Sep. 30th. BTW - it took 7 weeks for me to receive my case.
Yes, that would be even simpler. I don't view this as a big enough problem to make me indignant that Apple didn't go that extra step, but I guess if you are one of the few who have a real world problem with the iPhone 4 it feels much worse to you, and I can understand that.
Whenever there is a consumer product that does not work for a percentage of its users, that percentage is up in arms and everyone else wonders what the fuss is about.
Yes, that would be even simpler. I don't view this as a big enough problem to make me indignant that Apple didn't go that extra step, but I guess if you are one of the few who have a real world problem with the iPhone 4 it feels much worse to you, and I can understand that.
Whenever there is a consumer product that does not work for a percentage of its users, that percentage is up in arms and everyone else wonders what the fuss is about.
HiRez
May 2, 05:11 PM
WTF? This is a computer, with a real mouse/trackpad. Click and hold til it wiggles, then click the x?
RIGHT-CLICK. COME ON APPLE, THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.
Hi! How does it feel there in 1997? Tip for you: don't bet on the Cleveland Indians.
(And how do you know there's not a menu option for the same thing when right-clicking anyway?)
RIGHT-CLICK. COME ON APPLE, THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.
Hi! How does it feel there in 1997? Tip for you: don't bet on the Cleveland Indians.
(And how do you know there's not a menu option for the same thing when right-clicking anyway?)
Reventon
Nov 24, 12:42 PM
Gran Turismo 5: Collector's Edition (PSN: copenmind, if you wanna race :D ).
ucfgrad93
Apr 9, 04:41 PM
I learned how to drive on a stick shift. It has been awhile since I have driven one, but I'm sure I still could.
iJaz
Oct 23, 06:56 AM
I can bet $100 that there will be MacBook/Pro upgrades either this year or next year!
nagromme
Jul 18, 02:06 AM
I hope the rental thing is true--I don't want to own. I'm not with Steve Jobs on this one (assuming the rumors are true that he opposes rentals).
Owning music downloads fits my habits/needs. Owning movie downloads does NOT. The vast majority of movies I watch I never see again. And I don't want to store big movie files long-term. And I don't want to pay a higher price! Lower the price and make it short-term. I like that better.
For the few movies/shows I'd want to own, I want the discs (Blu-Ray preferred :) ) and the ability to take them to a friends' house.
Also, if it's a rental model, I can be more forgiving on quality. They'd have to be better than iPod 320x240 (except, obviously, when played ON an iPod), but if they're a little bit short of DVD quality, I'd still be bored enough to seek instant gratification and rent some. The price would have to be right, of course. Netflix rentals cost about $2.50 each on my plan. For slightly-sub-DVD quality and near-instant delivery, I'd pay maybe $2. For FULL DVD quality I'd certainly be willing to match Netlflix's price, or even pay a little more (for iTunes convenience/speed).
How often would I rent? Depends on selection... which means, probably not often :) At first. But it would be cool to see it grow to a collection that could rival Netflix.
After all, I already do all my movie watching on my Mac (sometimes connected to TV).
Owning music downloads fits my habits/needs. Owning movie downloads does NOT. The vast majority of movies I watch I never see again. And I don't want to store big movie files long-term. And I don't want to pay a higher price! Lower the price and make it short-term. I like that better.
For the few movies/shows I'd want to own, I want the discs (Blu-Ray preferred :) ) and the ability to take them to a friends' house.
Also, if it's a rental model, I can be more forgiving on quality. They'd have to be better than iPod 320x240 (except, obviously, when played ON an iPod), but if they're a little bit short of DVD quality, I'd still be bored enough to seek instant gratification and rent some. The price would have to be right, of course. Netflix rentals cost about $2.50 each on my plan. For slightly-sub-DVD quality and near-instant delivery, I'd pay maybe $2. For FULL DVD quality I'd certainly be willing to match Netlflix's price, or even pay a little more (for iTunes convenience/speed).
How often would I rent? Depends on selection... which means, probably not often :) At first. But it would be cool to see it grow to a collection that could rival Netflix.
After all, I already do all my movie watching on my Mac (sometimes connected to TV).
dmw007
Nov 15, 08:42 AM
Perhaps this would allow me to play a large map on Civ4 without the terrible huge long pauses...
Maybe, although the lag in Civ IV may have more to do with the program itself, rather than the hardware (depending on what type of Mac you are using). :)
Maybe, although the lag in Civ IV may have more to do with the program itself, rather than the hardware (depending on what type of Mac you are using). :)
islanders
Dec 29, 08:21 AM
It looks like it�s going to play YouTube on your TV and be a HDMI/DVI/USB switch board.
A video processor or scaler would be nice.
If it doesn�t have HD there wont be much demand for iTunes download.
I wish they would team up with a high speed satellite internet provider and provide an iDish, but it looks like Apple is thinking small potatoes and thinks it�s going go luck out with another simple iPod device.
It is a good price point and a lot of people will want to watch YouTube on their tv, and a HDMI/DVI switch is about a $100 bucks.
A video processor or scaler would be nice.
If it doesn�t have HD there wont be much demand for iTunes download.
I wish they would team up with a high speed satellite internet provider and provide an iDish, but it looks like Apple is thinking small potatoes and thinks it�s going go luck out with another simple iPod device.
It is a good price point and a lot of people will want to watch YouTube on their tv, and a HDMI/DVI switch is about a $100 bucks.
baryon
Mar 31, 11:57 AM
Ok folks!!! Now try to manage your favorites in "Favorites Bar"!!! Try to change their places and see what happen!!! Pure madness!!!:D:D
I'm not a developer, what happens?
I'm not a developer, what happens?
Tommyg117
Sep 6, 07:35 PM
still think the prices are a little steep for things that can be watched on an ipod. Sure you can use the output from the dock to play it on your tv, but if you have a slightly big tv, it doesn't look DVD quality.
kelving525
Sep 14, 11:19 AM
I went to BB yesterday and I saw the Grip Vue, but I was disappointed that they only have sharp colors. What happened to the colors from the 2G/3G??
ModestPenguin
Sep 1, 03:51 PM
Here's my idea
drop the mini
make three tier imac line
17" Merom
20" conroe/merom
23" conroe
then add in a cube like deskop for a pro-sumer computer with three tiers and upgradeability
*hopes*
drop the mini
make three tier imac line
17" Merom
20" conroe/merom
23" conroe
then add in a cube like deskop for a pro-sumer computer with three tiers and upgradeability
*hopes*
Mainyehc
Nov 28, 03:50 PM
I agree with almost everything you wrote (you're a pretty smart guy!) but offer two comments:
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
lordonuthin
Apr 1, 06:43 PM
sorry to hear about the errors. i hope everything gets worked out. you're putting out the points again! love to see that!
No kernel panics here, but I noticed some a3 core units being send back early, usually in the first 10%, it started before 10.6.3
Ok, I think the panics were caused by something I did, not the update, that is what I get for making too many changes at once, I'll have to test the configurations to see what caused them. All is well at the moment.
yeah, that's not a bad idea to sell your current mac pro to help pay for the newer one. i hope you get the 12 core if they release one (and they better)Definitely the 12 core ;)
I moved the 2 GPU machines to the basement where it is much cooler (I know the dust and spiders might kill them, but... hopefully no snakes...) and it is almost quiet upstairs now! The mac pro is soooo quiet! No other Mac that I remember having has been so quiet. I had to run the KVM and network cables between an air duct and the floor, it's kinda goofy but better than a new hole in the floor. Oh, and I accidentally created a network loop, not a good thing as it took me a while to fix. Downtime was only about 2 1/2 hrs, should have been less but I wasn't very well prepared; it was getting way too hot upstairs already.
No kernel panics here, but I noticed some a3 core units being send back early, usually in the first 10%, it started before 10.6.3
Ok, I think the panics were caused by something I did, not the update, that is what I get for making too many changes at once, I'll have to test the configurations to see what caused them. All is well at the moment.
yeah, that's not a bad idea to sell your current mac pro to help pay for the newer one. i hope you get the 12 core if they release one (and they better)Definitely the 12 core ;)
I moved the 2 GPU machines to the basement where it is much cooler (I know the dust and spiders might kill them, but... hopefully no snakes...) and it is almost quiet upstairs now! The mac pro is soooo quiet! No other Mac that I remember having has been so quiet. I had to run the KVM and network cables between an air duct and the floor, it's kinda goofy but better than a new hole in the floor. Oh, and I accidentally created a network loop, not a good thing as it took me a while to fix. Downtime was only about 2 1/2 hrs, should have been less but I wasn't very well prepared; it was getting way too hot upstairs already.
Object-X
Nov 27, 08:26 PM
Well, see... there's this little thing called market analysis and listening to the people you sell things to. I highly doubt Apple was sitting around going "we need to release something new because its been months. I know! How about a different monitor size!"
Why not reduce the 20" to $399? Why should they when they seem to be selling just fine at where they are?
Dell is putting IMAGINED price pressure on Apple with their monitors. Selling cheaper crap will cost you less.
IMAGINED?
Let's look at the facts.
20" Apple $699 - Dell $399
23" Apple $999 - Dell $799 (24")
30" Apple $1999 - Dell $1499
Those are real numbers. Dell has brighter specs, more connection options, and with the 23" they have a 24" that's still $200 cheaper.
What imaginary planet are you on? $300, $200, and $500 difference in price respectively. That's real money. And it pressures people into considering a Dell. (Bad Apple!) All you are really getting for those extra hundres of dollars is a display that looks nice with your mini, MBP, or MP.
You claim that Apple's monitors are selling well, but you have no facts to back that up. Apple doesn't post their sales numbers for products like this so you're just making it up. Those sales numbers could suck a$$ and you wouldn't know. And I believe they do suck, but Apple won't tell you that, it sucks because they want them to suck. Keep reading.
I believe Apple does this to encourage people to buy iMacs. If your willing to pony up $2400 or more on a Mac Pro then maybe an extra $500 doesn't bother you for the two 30" displays your going to use, and if all you can afford is mini Apple doesn't seem to mind you buying that Dell monitor. By pricing the monitors several hundred more than they are really worth, you are now in the iMac price range. I bet if you could see and add up the numbers, buying a mini and an over priced cinema display gives Apple the same profit margin as an iMac. Apple doesn't have a mid range tower. Again, because they want to sell you an iMac. By keeping their product line simple they reduce costs; making one widget as apposed to five different widgets is cheaper. But that limits choice.
I have an iMac, but I really don't want one. I want a mid-range tower and an external monitor. I'm not alone either. Apple's monitor price is a "choice incentive". It may help their bottom line, but it limits my choice. And since I hate Windows I'm forced into Apple's program. This is really what people are complaining about here. They want a mini and 20" cinema for under $1000, and I want a 23" and tower for under $2000, not a 24" iMac!
So, back to a 17" cinema. Why would Apple do this? I don't think they will. A 17" iMac is only $899. That's where they make their money, oh, and people like me willing to pay premium because we value esthetics.
Why not reduce the 20" to $399? Why should they when they seem to be selling just fine at where they are?
Dell is putting IMAGINED price pressure on Apple with their monitors. Selling cheaper crap will cost you less.
IMAGINED?
Let's look at the facts.
20" Apple $699 - Dell $399
23" Apple $999 - Dell $799 (24")
30" Apple $1999 - Dell $1499
Those are real numbers. Dell has brighter specs, more connection options, and with the 23" they have a 24" that's still $200 cheaper.
What imaginary planet are you on? $300, $200, and $500 difference in price respectively. That's real money. And it pressures people into considering a Dell. (Bad Apple!) All you are really getting for those extra hundres of dollars is a display that looks nice with your mini, MBP, or MP.
You claim that Apple's monitors are selling well, but you have no facts to back that up. Apple doesn't post their sales numbers for products like this so you're just making it up. Those sales numbers could suck a$$ and you wouldn't know. And I believe they do suck, but Apple won't tell you that, it sucks because they want them to suck. Keep reading.
I believe Apple does this to encourage people to buy iMacs. If your willing to pony up $2400 or more on a Mac Pro then maybe an extra $500 doesn't bother you for the two 30" displays your going to use, and if all you can afford is mini Apple doesn't seem to mind you buying that Dell monitor. By pricing the monitors several hundred more than they are really worth, you are now in the iMac price range. I bet if you could see and add up the numbers, buying a mini and an over priced cinema display gives Apple the same profit margin as an iMac. Apple doesn't have a mid range tower. Again, because they want to sell you an iMac. By keeping their product line simple they reduce costs; making one widget as apposed to five different widgets is cheaper. But that limits choice.
I have an iMac, but I really don't want one. I want a mid-range tower and an external monitor. I'm not alone either. Apple's monitor price is a "choice incentive". It may help their bottom line, but it limits my choice. And since I hate Windows I'm forced into Apple's program. This is really what people are complaining about here. They want a mini and 20" cinema for under $1000, and I want a 23" and tower for under $2000, not a 24" iMac!
So, back to a 17" cinema. Why would Apple do this? I don't think they will. A 17" iMac is only $899. That's where they make their money, oh, and people like me willing to pay premium because we value esthetics.
AFPoster
Mar 22, 01:17 PM
His profile says he's the Director of IT. Who am I to question that?
It also says "If you could describe an instigator it would be me."
It also says "If you could describe an instigator it would be me."
thechris69
Sep 1, 02:17 PM
question.... would conroe or merom be better in the imac???
all apple has to do is make some extra ram space and make the gpu upgradeable...;)
all apple has to do is make some extra ram space and make the gpu upgradeable...;)
bmustaf
Sep 14, 09:59 AM
They DO, I don't think you have the facts. CR held Lexus' feet to the fire to get them to act on the GX - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/04/consumer-reports-2010-lexus-gx-dont-buy-safety-risk.html .
They EXPLICITLY came out and said "DO NOT BUY". A lot harsher than the Apple "Cannot Recommend".
People trust CR because they're a non-profit that doesn't accept ads, endorsements, or free product. So, I don't see what is wrong with not recommending a product that has a flaw that the manufacturer isn't providing a permanent/non-band aid style fix for.
If you read their article/write up on the iPhone 4, they give you the facts and let you make your decision, but when CR says "Recommended" you can be pretty sure you're buying a product without its issues. I don't think anyone here can say the iPhone 4 is without its issues. Those issues aren't a material problem for me, so I love mine, but I'm not a blind Apple fanboy type, either, so I have the wherewithall to understand that Apple and their products aren't perfect.
I respect CR for making an unpopular call & sticking with it. I tend to trust them because they are open about their testing, results, the facts, and make recommendations based on that. I can make my own decision, so I didn't heed their "Not Recommended", but I do understand and respect why they rated it so and why the Case Program isn't an acceptable answer.
PS - Auto makers pretty much do have to go door-to-door and hand out the fix for affected cars. You get a card in the mail and if it is a safety issue (e.g. accelerator/tip over, etc) they will even have the dealer come GET the car from you until it is "made safe" again. The onus is *NOT* on the owner, the company has to be proactive about it. Besides, CR isn't asking Apple to send a Steve Jobs look alike to everyone's home to put a case on their phone - they're just asking Apple to provide a *permanent* fix, be it a *permanent* case program (which I think is a band-aid, and I think CR sees it that way, too) or a *permanent* hardware fix. There is no certainty what the case (no pun intended) is going to be after Sept 30 - they have a point there.
Follow up - Lexus fixed the problem and CR lifted their "DO NOT BUY" recommendation - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/05/video-lexus-gx-460-passes-retest-consumer-reports-lifts-dont-buy-label.html . CR is *NOT* the problem here, it's Apple penchant for hubris/self-involvement. I love Apple and their products, but I'm not fooling myself to expect that they'll be any more consumer-friendly and honest than they need to be to turn a profit/feed Steve's ego.
Get your facts straight before you spout off with inaccurate rhetoric.
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!
Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...
They EXPLICITLY came out and said "DO NOT BUY". A lot harsher than the Apple "Cannot Recommend".
People trust CR because they're a non-profit that doesn't accept ads, endorsements, or free product. So, I don't see what is wrong with not recommending a product that has a flaw that the manufacturer isn't providing a permanent/non-band aid style fix for.
If you read their article/write up on the iPhone 4, they give you the facts and let you make your decision, but when CR says "Recommended" you can be pretty sure you're buying a product without its issues. I don't think anyone here can say the iPhone 4 is without its issues. Those issues aren't a material problem for me, so I love mine, but I'm not a blind Apple fanboy type, either, so I have the wherewithall to understand that Apple and their products aren't perfect.
I respect CR for making an unpopular call & sticking with it. I tend to trust them because they are open about their testing, results, the facts, and make recommendations based on that. I can make my own decision, so I didn't heed their "Not Recommended", but I do understand and respect why they rated it so and why the Case Program isn't an acceptable answer.
PS - Auto makers pretty much do have to go door-to-door and hand out the fix for affected cars. You get a card in the mail and if it is a safety issue (e.g. accelerator/tip over, etc) they will even have the dealer come GET the car from you until it is "made safe" again. The onus is *NOT* on the owner, the company has to be proactive about it. Besides, CR isn't asking Apple to send a Steve Jobs look alike to everyone's home to put a case on their phone - they're just asking Apple to provide a *permanent* fix, be it a *permanent* case program (which I think is a band-aid, and I think CR sees it that way, too) or a *permanent* hardware fix. There is no certainty what the case (no pun intended) is going to be after Sept 30 - they have a point there.
Follow up - Lexus fixed the problem and CR lifted their "DO NOT BUY" recommendation - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/05/video-lexus-gx-460-passes-retest-consumer-reports-lifts-dont-buy-label.html . CR is *NOT* the problem here, it's Apple penchant for hubris/self-involvement. I love Apple and their products, but I'm not fooling myself to expect that they'll be any more consumer-friendly and honest than they need to be to turn a profit/feed Steve's ego.
Get your facts straight before you spout off with inaccurate rhetoric.
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!
Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...
Nym
Nov 30, 10:31 AM
Microsoft owns nothing of Apple, just to make that clear, and of course they don't Apple to succeed... they want it to sink. :)
The fact that M$ owns a portion of Apple is a myth, not true.
The fact that M$ owns a portion of Apple is a myth, not true.
striker33
Mar 26, 08:59 AM
Whilst tablet gaming will never overtake console gaming, unless a TV dock and controller is introduced, its always fun to see a portable device that is capable of outputting games at 1920x1080, where the xbox 360 and ps3 (retail games only) can not.
They seriously think the 360 can last another 5 years? Considering this is only the iPad's 2nd release, I wouldn't bet on it.
They seriously think the 360 can last another 5 years? Considering this is only the iPad's 2nd release, I wouldn't bet on it.
razzmatazz
Aug 6, 09:41 PM
I became a hard core Mac user after Panther was released. I was wondering if Apple took stabs at Microsoft when they were introducing Panther. :confused:
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